Whose House Is It Anyway? — http://thegodjourney.com/2012/05/31/whose-house-is-it-anyway/

It's now time to think outside the box of what we've always known. I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the sovereign Lord. I think that's a profound turning point in somebody's relationship with God. And our hope in starting this was that this would become an ever-expanding conversation. Just two real guys talking about life. That's a nice tagline. I'm Wayne Jacobson. And I'm Brad Cummings. And welcome to another edition of The God Journey. You got a great kids book there. I do. I want my grandkids to read this book and treasure it every day of their life. It's got a nice handle and a locky. It does. It's not just a lock. It's a locky. It's a locky? It's too cute to be called just a lock. It's got a little doggie on it. That's special. It's not a cat. You got it on that. We're kind of mocking this, aren't we? It is designed to be cute and it's designed to be held and hold. I mean, someone's gone through an awful lot of thought and manufacturing to put this together. If only they'd put the thought into the content. Oh, now, now. This is baby's first church book. Let's go to church. Yeah, that's the title. It's baby's first church book. A good friend of mine sent me this saying, I thought you would love this. Here's the first. That's what we're teaching little kids now. That's the first line. God loves us very much. He is our friend so far. So good. Hey, I'm in. So we visit him at his house. Church. Sweet. Is God's house. Sweet. Wow. And then it asks, what other friends do you visit? And then it ends with this. I don't read the whole book because I'll probably get sued for blowing up the content. So I'm just going to give you a quote. Last part says this. What else do we do at church? We sing songs. Songs we sing at church are called hymns. This is written before the chorus era, I guess. God is happy when he hears us sing. Oh, and you want to keep God happy. That's really important because if you're not singing, he's not happy. And then it ends with this. When we leave church, we say, by God, I'll visit again soon. Man, there was a lot I could have said amen to at least the first page. Yeah, except God's our friend. Hey, God's our friend. And then I wasn't, I don't know, I just really struggled from there. It's hard because this is actually, we get a lot of people rag on us. They were anti-church or anti-this and that. I'm anti-going to a building and thinking that's it. I am really against calling any building God's house. And I'm really bummed with the by God. Yeah, I'll see you next week, going back to life on my own. I think he's standing here like, no, I was going to go home with you. Oh, the very last line is, can you wave goodbye to God? It's a highly interactive book. But you know what? I mean, someone's trying to engage a little kid and they're trying to talk to them and waste it. This should be child abuse. It should be. I think God looks at this and go, why do you make something so dishonest, so cute? Why do you do that? Why do you want to teach kids from the earliest age? I live in that big building down the street. And when you're not here, I'm not there. No, I know. Yeah. No, this is simple. Trash can, here it comes. I've been waiting to do this for the two months since I got this book. Here it goes. Oh, wow. That was firm. That's gone. Trash can't award. That's gone. That's gone. See, but hold on. I'm not... You want it back? No. You can have it. No. You want to use the tailor? No. Take it home. No. I just think that the sad reality is someone put that together in the sincerity, not the dishonesty of their heart, thinking that those little concepts would be helpful. And just go like... Do you really? I do. No. No. This is a real digest. You don't think somebody said, you know, we could sell this book? This is an idea that we'll sell. People will buy you. No, I want to guarantee that there's a person somewhere in that food chain that thought this was a genuinely good, helpful idea. So if you're an investigative reporter and want to do this research, find out, was this just a cynical commercial product produced by the publishing industry for little kids or somebody with a sincere heart was behind it, then no, we don't turn you loose on this story. This would be fascinating. Oh, Mr. Jacobson. I like your optimistic, glassy, half full kind of look at the world. Mr. Jacobson. No. See, I look at... I mean, I'm glad you slam dunked it. I get that. I know. I get that. But I sort of feel like the reality is, I think God looks down and he looks at the good intentions of man going, you know, we're going to teach you this. And you just go like, no, that's not me. That's not it. And I don't think he gets ticked. I think he just says, you know what, I'm going to go home with you anyways. I'm going to hang out with you anyways. Yeah. No, I don't think God gets ticked, but I think the whole essence of why Stephen gets stoned, why Jesus comes in, that we are the temple of God. Our bodies are the place where God dwells. I think that is so bedrock to New Testament theology and ecclesiology and life. And yet, I think 90% of nominal believers in the world believe the church is God's house and that's where God lives. And then we... But if you nail them down a lot of the time, no, no, no, we don't take that seriously. God's obviously everywhere present and they give lip service to the other realities. But this is the one that I think invites people into the bondage of a church experience that is an obligated need to be with God here and not that I get to experiencing Him everywhere in my life all day long. And then we bash them for being hypocrites. If they don't live Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, the things we want them to live on Sunday. And I think that ethos has been such a part of the way we ingrain think that we've lost God's reality in most of what calls itself the church. And having just visited a couple of these big cathedrals in Europe that are all decked out to really say, this is a special place and you come here and feel things you don't feel elsewhere or more contemporary versions of the same thing. Not fancy buildings, rented schools. But still, we're going to create an environment of worship, quote unquote, where you can soak and here is where you can know God better than when you wake up Monday morning and start talking to Him and live your life in Him. And that's what, honestly, I think that so captures people in a distorted view of God that I'm not light on it. I really feel like, man, you're going to teach people this is God's house, wave by by as you go home. I think you are absolutely corrupting little children. Get your dandruff, doesn't it? No, just a little. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. Yes, I'm looking at the blood pressure meters like, yeah, it's up there. It's up there. Here's why though. Ashley writes this. I listen all the time. For about a year now, I've felt a tugging on my heart and surprisingly, I never thought that tugging would lead me out of the doors of the institutional church and into a more organic relationship with faith. I'm glad to see that I'm not alone. In the small town I live in, most likely 99% of the people would disagree with this new direction in my life. My husband and my mom are two of them. And it can be really hard and often I feel like I'm alone. But that doesn't get me down now because I know my heart is more full now than it had ever been when I was under the same roof every Sunday doing the same things with the same people. I could never understand why I didn't have any joy in my life for all those years. And now my cup runs over. This is most definitely a journey. And God has been opening doors for me to find people who seek the same authentic faith as I am. That's awesome. That's a neat letter. Yeah. Husband, mom, don't get it. There's a painful bit there. But the fact that, Ashley, you had the courage to go, you know what, I'm going to follow my heart here. And the fact that that doesn't get more affirmed, even in a local community, just saying, the Sunday thing didn't work for you. And something else is great instead of, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Great. Oh, I've never heard anything really great. That's good. That was thumbs up. Yeah. That was thumbs up. That was thumbs up. Great. Why we don't rejoice when people find life? Instead, you got out of the thing we don't like going to every Sunday. So you're not here suffering with us? We're going to drag you back in. I think what's so crazy is, I mean, and I've heard it and I'm not enough of a psychologist to know what's what. But it's like the whole idea of how we're going to raise up kids and how we're going to teach things to people. And they say, you know, kids have to sort of learn to do things, to behave. And then they'll understand what they believe, you know, it's like out of their behaviors will come forth their beliefs. And I'm going like, okay, that could be true. But I'm not sure it's helpful. I don't see God doing that because I don't see God starting with just, I'm going to show you rules. And then one day I'll teach you grace. I think God teaches us himself. And then the rules don't come as empty rules. See, they become as life-giving elements of relationship. They're not like obligated, you know, performance indicators. And I sort of feel like, gosh, we don't bring and convert people to a him, to a person. We give them a doctrine, a body of belief, you know, a conformity system of here's what you should think and here's what you should do. And I'm going like, yeah, but if you never meet the person, none of that works. Yeah, one of the things John Beaumont says, we weren't called to teach the scriptures, we were called to preach Christ. Now, that's cute language. That is profound. It is profound. But how much of the time we're teaching scriptures with the desire to obligate people to certain expectations? And that is polar opposite from preaching Christ, to teach Christ, to unveil who he is, to help people come to know him, to help people enjoy that relationship. And when people do, like Ashley, everyone around them gets threatened because you're not doing the obligation thing anymore. The lemmings are uncomfortable. Yeah, now one of my long time, I wouldn't say he rose, that's probably overstated, but I can't think of another word at the moment. Chuck Colson passed away recently. Did you catch that? Yes, I did. Yeah, he was, I read some of his stuff early days, loved a lot of what he wrote early, loved the fact that here's a man who went to prison and got transformed enough not to leave the prisoners there and come back in incredible ways and helped them. And then he became a bit more of a, could we say a political activist for the religious right cause and for religious right worldview for a season and I was less endeared to some of that. But in Eric Metaxas is kind of filling in on his column now that Chuck's no longer writing it, I wrote this a little bit a couple of weeks ago and read this while I was away. So in the last few years of his ministry, Chuck Colson became increasingly concerned with the extreme individualism he witnessed in American Christianity. He became dismayed at what he dubbed the Jesus in me attitude he saw among Christians, especially younger ones. In fact, the last column he worked on for Christianity Today was in response to the YouTube sensation, Why I Hate Religion But Love Jesus. While he understood the frustration people feel towards churches, he reiterated what Martin Luther taught, he who would find Christ must first find the church or put another way, you cannot answer the question of how now shall we live on your own. The emphasis on the church was not new for Chuck. On the contrary, it was a subject of one of his most important books, The Body, which was re-released in 2003 as being The Body. In it, Chuck and his co-author Ellen Santilli Vaughn examined the consequences of what they called the improbable plan. Christ put in place 2,000 years ago, that plan was to leave the evidence of his continuing presence in the world in the hands of a motley crew of flawed human beings. That motley crew is the church. The Body was Chuck's response to the realization that the church was infected with the most virulent virus of modern American life, radical individualism. The radical individualism of Jesus in me can never be light in the darkness that Christians are called to be. And I read that stuff and I go, see that? Yeah, what? You're hurting? Yeah, I'm not totally jellied with that. No, gosh, no, I'm not either because what it does, it takes people who say the religious structures of this place no longer works for me. So I'm going to find Jesus in a real way. And then even Martin Luther's quote, you can't find Jesus until you first find the church. Really? Is that how it works? You've got to find the church. Then you can find him. I think you can find him. Isn't that bizarre for a guy? Think of who just said that. For whom the church tried to kill? Yeah. Yeah, you think? Wait a minute. What did you nail up where? Yeah, it would be interesting to know when he said this. Did he say it while he was still a Catholic or after he created the Lutheran Fellowship and now he needed time? I guarantee it's after that. Or way before all of that when he still thought the Catholics were doing it. I don't know. I think what's so crazy is, you know what? It's not the church that saves me. It's not my doctrines that save me. It's a relationship with a person. I have a savior. I have a savior. It's a person. Yep. Man, I'll show you what. The noise is here. Just keep rolling. We've got planes flying over. We've got fans and motors outside. I don't know what y'all are hearing on this podcast. We apologize for the extra noise, but I think there's an air raid going on around here. We have the shades down. We can't see if they are invading. I don't apologize for the extraneous noise. I'm going to have to get this room soundproofed someday. I think that is profound. I'm not saved by believing a creed. I am saved by a savior. Or not by having your buns in a pew on a Sunday morning. That's not going to save you either. No. Yeah. Not. I mean, I look at that and it's like, okay, but the balance is the fact that you know what? You cannot ask how then shall we live by thyself. Very true. Grammatically true. I agree. The we is us. It's like there is relationship and I'm not saved unto myself so as to be by myself. We are brought into a body, a corporate reality. But I'm not saved by that body. No. And I would in fact suggest it's just the opposite of what's being posited here. Until you find Jesus and me, you're not going to find a healthy connection with the body. I do agree that Jesus left his life in this motley crew of his followers and he's still. But it's his life that he left. In the motley. The motley crew is like the atom. But the motley crew is all of us. It's not just those who quote unquote belong to the church. It's the terminology of church away from people following Jesus to the institutions on the corner that deeply disturbs me. I know if you enjoy, if you've got a Sunday morning connection, faith community that works for you and you gather on Sunday morning in a building, God bless you. I've got no issues with that. If you think your relationship with God begins there, that it is affirmed there, that that church is your savior, then like you say, man, you're on a bad road. What is the difference between a building full of people and the church? What's the difference? Yeah, what's the difference between just a building full of people and the church? Jesus? Yeah. I sort of put that on a T. I was going to say squirrel. Squirrel. I went with Jesus. Gosh. So, yeah, squirrel. It's like, that's not supposed to be so profound, but it's like, you know what? Just because there's a bunch of people in a building does not a church make. Especially if they're doing obligation-based religious activity. Yeah, I would venture to say, it doesn't matter how religious the building looks. It's not the church until he's there. It's only the church when he's in our midst. He's the one that makes it the church. Yeah. I don't know how to, I mean, if four of us that love Jesus are just down the corner having coffee and somehow God isn't involved in it, are we the church? And we're four people having coffee. I don't think it makes us the church. If he's in me, then I'm the church. And I'm not the church because you're with me. I'm the church because he's in me. Yeah, but the church, I like the idea that the church is bigger than it. People say, you know, I don't go to church, I am the church. Well, alone we're not the church. You know, we are part of it, certainly, but it's when the body of Christ lives and moves and shares together. When two or three are together in my mind, I think there is a dynamic too. It's not just Jesus and me totally, but it begins there until you connect with Jesus in a real way for most people. You're just in a building. Their religious activity is a substitute for the relationship with God they don't have. So I'm going there hoping something happens. And until I find God, the only place you can find him is in your heart. That's where he dwells. That's where he wants to make himself known. You find him there. And I guess what all these people are afraid of is, well, if people really get connected to Jesus, they won't come to church anymore. So we got to say, church is verse. And you got to come here to these buildings to make this stuff work. And the fear is people who get to know God are going to live isolated, independent lives. And I don't find that to be a reality. I don't. I find people on this journey very much want to connect, live alongside, share their life with, be benefited and encouraged by other brothers and sisters who are also on this journey. There's no independence about it. You know, isolated, independent people live isolated, independent lives. They tend to. Even if they're in Sunday morning buildings. It doesn't matter if you've got people around you. Isolated, independent people can be all by themselves even in a crowd. Absolutely. So it's not about, well, if Jesus in me is like, well, then you'll be by yourself. It's like, you know what? It's kind of impossible to be following this guy called the Savior who loves the entire body of people. He doesn't leave us by ourselves. So if I'm with him, chances are I'm going to be directed to people. I've never, I've never just hung out with Jesus and he's, no, don't go see them. Yeah, you know, please. Get people out of your life. They're a problem. I have never had that conversation with him. I've never had that fruit growing like, well, just, you know, don't be a people. You know, can't trust it. It's like, come on, who are you actually with? There's a lot of things we can do and we can make excuses for all kinds of things. We can justify all kinds of things. I think we have supernatural powers of rationalization. But a genuine Jesus follower is going to find himself genuinely in the midst of the lives of other people sharing that life. Yeah, because they want to. Because that's where life is. Not because they have to to prove you're not an independent, isolated individual. Because they want to. It's just that definition and I run into it all the time. It gets your dandruff. Well, I don't know, it gets my dandruff personally. I fear for people or just, like Ashley, who, okay, that's not working for me. So now stuff like Eric writes here, Paulson has talked about for the last 15 years or so. You're dismissed now. You're one of those independent people because you've really decided to go on a spiritual journey and find out who Jesus is and want to walk with him and want to share a community life that sitting in a pew staring at the back of the someone's head doesn't serve us. And suddenly because of that, you are marginalized as not probably a real Christian. Certainly you can't know Jesus apart from the church and they mean that building on Sunday morning. And I think that rings so strong in people's heads and hearts that they have a really difficult time going on the journey Jesus is inviting them on when it doesn't encompass that environment. If it does agree... That's a commentary from the prison guards. It is. You know, I mean, it's like, it isn't... I can look at a behavior and say, you know what, if you read it of Jesus, you would be here with us. It's like, really? Really? It's just, that's the litmus test? If I really love Jesus, I would be here with everyone else. This everyone else. What about everyone else just down the street? That's the second Baptist, whatever. Just everything else. It's like, we do not have a very good history of being able to define this as the body of people when it's like we got thousands of those and they all think they're the right one. Yeah. You just go like, guys, maybe he's the right savior and the rest of us need to kind of figure out how to hang. And maybe living as the church isn't about sitting in meetings all the time. It's about living alongside brothers and sisters, helping them where they hurt and loving them where they need love and encouraging them and being encouraged and then doing in the world whatever God gives us to do in the world. Maybe that's a lot more effective than having meetings about meetings and meetings that are incredibly performance-oriented. Oh my gosh. I think part of this, I just said two of these recently and they almost took me under. I just go, wow, how do you do that every week? Meetings about meetings. Or even just a performance-based deal even when I'm one of the ones doing the performing at the end of the day. I'm just going, what allows the environment to learn? What allows, I mean, is a place where, yeah, can a lot of information be put out to a group of people? Yeah, it can be. Is it effective in helping people get what it is to live loved and live life and go on? Not if the focal point remains there. If, when we go out of the building and we have to wave, bye, God. I'll see you next week. Bye. It's like, well, gosh, very little of what I do is going to work between now and then. Yeah. Because I mean, it's in him we live and move and have our being. If he's there and I'm not, well, what's left? I think it would be really boring to sit in that building all week long by yourself just waiting for Sunday to show up and people come back and say hi to you again. That's got to be rough on God. Here I am again. No, no. He has the pastor. It's Monday morning. He is the pastor. Hang on. The pastor is in his office. He's not in his sanctuary. He's just sitting there looking around and going, I can't wait till they bring flowers in here for Sunday because I'll get to see some people. It is so bizarre. Well, a few more emails. We got some time. Yeah? Sharon said this in the blog. I'd like to hear more about dealing with draining people. I'm briefly in this podcast, and I have no idea what podcast that is. I find some people seem less interested in knowing God than having you be God to them. They can consume vast amounts of energy and time and remain dependent. Despite a perpetual helping hand, they never seem to grow. They are also typically resentful, angry and absent if you ever have a hard time yourself. You just avoid such people? Are these the people the brighter proverbs talks about who says have nothing to do with those who are vexatious in spirit? Wow. I don't have that translation. Vexatious to the spirit. Oh. I'm not even sure what vexatious to the spirit. I don't know if that's what the writer probably thought. You know, I think, I think too often. What are you going? You wait back in the other room. I'm relaxed. Come up here to the microphone. I think too often the reason those situations kind of exist is we do kind of seek to be God for them as if we will fix them as opposed to just kind of lovingly accept them. My experience as a pastor is God always sends a little bit of the extra grace needed people to every group. I've never had a group of people that didn't have a few of those sort of extra grace required people. Which isn't a good reason to stay away from groups. You know what? Some of those people have taught me more about what it is to learn to love and accept and just the power that that will have to transform as opposed to fix. I don't know how to fix people. I think so much of what I did as a pastor as I tried. But I think when you really have a capacity to love folks and you don't I think those are some of the most challenging situations when someone is really like I'm trying to hook myself up to you to suck all the life that you have out. I mean, there are those people. There are. And I think what do you do with them? I don't think it's run away. I don't because I don't know that that solves it and that doesn't stop them from coming. I think they're being drawn to something. Chances are they're being drawn because they do. They need something. They want something. And they believe there's something here. I think it's a question of in that helping guide them to the fact that you know what? You're not going to be able to get what you're needing from me. I think it really is that sort of patient long suffering of being able to direct them towards the Lord. It's hard. Yeah, see what I here's how I'd approach this because I think I'd go back to telling Sharon, I think it depends on what God's asking you to do if you're if I have responsibility for a group and you're coming to this group and then we have a responsibility to treat you in a certain way and figure it out. I think there are very, very needy people that just need to be loved out of a very, very lost place. And I'm all for loving that. I think there's other people who come in who have no intention of that. They are really here to use the group of people who are meeting in God. I think that's also true. So I would come down to the same thing. What I like about the way Sharon and I live this journey now is number one, we hang out with people that we feel like God's asked us to hang out with. I don't have a group that people can just show up and try to get in on. If we don't have some personal connection with you or someone in that connection of people doesn't and we don't know who you are and whatever, we don't have something for you just there's very draining people that God asks Sarah and I to hang out with at times and we do and we love them through whatever it is they've got going. But the other side of that is being in It's rarely imposed on a group. Right, because they'll destroy a group. Particularly a home group. You've got people sharing and somebody's going to always drag it to them and their need, people will stop coming because I've found mostly people are dishonest with draining people. I've never had that problem. I've been on saying dude I feel like you're a leech sucking on me like you know. I would quite say it that way. Obviously overstated for effect. I'm sorry it's affected you this way. But I don't mind saying that when someone says you know what I'm uncomfortable in this relationship and go why? Because I don't say it. I sense you're trying to get stuff from me that I'm not sure you really want to find in him. If you want to do that, great. If this is the nature of our relationship I'm not sure it's good for you. I'm really sure it's not good for me. So let's talk about it. Now if they want to make some moves, great. I think honesty in a relationship. We had one girl come to a home group we did totally dominate the thing. And people just stopped coming. It was a long time ago. Why are you coming? Because it's boring. This woman just drives the whole thing. Right, why don't you ever speak up that's your job. Because the bedrock rule of church life is nice is better than honest. That's the bedrock thing. We've got to make a nice smile. I think honesty goes a long way. I'm uncomfortable with this relationship. I love you. I care about you. I feel like this is going bad. I feel like you're so lost in there. If you're really lost and want to know him let's do that. Let me be God to you. This is going to not work. And I find right now I used to I reached out to this question. And now I'm thinking I haven't in the last 10 years dealt with this. I don't know. But I think what you said is probably the biggest key is the relationships and the gatherings that you have are all intentional and constructed around what it is you're doing. It isn't just a habit and it isn't just a meeting and just a place. Why is it that we do that? Why do we have those meetings? I'm torn between not getting your idea that someone has a wonderful intent and with the best of ambitions they're making something lovely available. And on the other side of it I'm going to say someone needs to make a living. Somebody wants to be full-time ministry and it takes a group with supporters to make that happen. It's going to be in the body of Christ if someone's got to make a living. And so I do think that becomes part of it. So it's both. Wonderfully sensitive people trying to help and cynical money munchers who need a job. Boy, I'm going to get emailed about that. You're a bitter old man. No, I'm not. I think there are people there are some people that have their habit of meeting that are not necessarily tied to because the pastor needs a paycheck. I get that. And I think that spawns all kinds of evils. I think we have a religious habit that doesn't have that sense of Jesus, what are we doing today? I think people just sort of assume well we do this thing and this is what church people do and so you do have these kind of opened to all gathered meetings that people can just find their way to and because we're not exactly sure why we're doing them there isn't a sense of what to do with those people. And even worse we advertise them in places where strangers can just go wow this looks like a good group to hang out with. Yeah. Oh my gosh. So I do think it's because we don't have a sense of what it is that we are doing that you do end up with the capacity for a gathering to be dominated by someone who just shows up. Yeah and a smaller gathering and a larger gathering they got bodyguards to keep people from and I think that's why services tend to move away from spontaneously being open just like you know talk radio things if you have talk radio without screening phone calls it gets pretty bad because the people that want to hear themselves on the radio aren't always interesting people. Yes. So if we've had that open services then you got a lot of junk being shared and I would say you know I'm not thinking that was really what God was saying today so let's just put that aside or you all pretend it was wonderful or you finally just stop having people and then you only approve people can share spontaneously go to microphone and the bigger it gets then the more we hem it down to there's only a few that can really be trusted with the microphone because the rest are just going to mess it up and so we tend to move away from that open thing anyway because there are people who thinking people somehow need the light need the spotlight on them for some reason they really... They're craving acceptance and attention and I don't think that that's so awful or weird or even uncommon I think it's pretty human the question is that's not really the best way to get it. Yeah but it's not really human in the sense that most people don't go there there's a certain type of person that meets this craving I want to be in a spotlight with a microphone in my hand and I want people... I want a captive audience to have to listen to me because no one will normally listen to me and I... I don't read any of those gatherings in the Gospels No there's my problem I mean you end up going like I don't see the habit of get-togethers that don't have a sense of purpose and a sense of rhyme and reason for what's going on there it seemed to me that when the church gathered there was a sense of following the life of that church leading and that's the Holy Spirit being the administrator of what's going on they didn't have just the habit Well you know that one thing that's ruined us all from Corinthians on the first day of the week when you gathered so they were going see they did it the first day of the week so now we all have to have a routine. Well they did do it that way I agree with you I think most of it was much was a greater dynamic of living in the life of God and doing things that God called them to do that may leave them in a prayer meeting praying for Peter and John when they're locked up in prison and they've gotten together to do that very specific things to get together and do not just the routine of a meeting but it seemed like there's enough little hint in Scripture that people start going nope see it was a week and the Lord moved it over to Sunday met every week and that's what every Christian's got to do to be God's kid in the world and that's you know stand first that custom and command was meeting on Sunday morning every week in a performance based gathering what we call a service is that Christ's command to us or is that just a custom Christians have fallen into the custom obviously is that and yet most people feel obligated to it or feel the horrible guilt if they don't if they step out of it they feel the disapproval of friends and relatives they feel the disapproval of the religious entity they were part of and it makes it a very difficult choice to go on a bit of a different journey but still a choice worth making in my view and then they get to wave bye God no no, no and then God standing out on the street going welcome to my place thank you for traveling with us on The God Journey you can be part of the conversation by visiting our website thegodjourney.com