You Are Salt (#523) — http://thegodjourney.com/2016/03/11/you-are-salt-523/

Outside the box of religious obligation, miles of road less traveled into the heart of the father's affection. Swinging freedom all over the place. This is the God, Jan the God, Jan the God. Listen man, food poisoning is not something you want on the road. I'm pretty sure of it. No. I don't think I've ever wanted food poisoning. Have you never? Never prayed for it? Never I say God, need some cleansing? You know, there has been one time where I horked enough that I felt like I lost like thousand. That was effective. Well, the weight loss is definitely the good side of it. That's the uptick. That's like after all of that abdominal crunching that you go through. Yeah. There is some benefit on the other side. At the other side, you're going, wow, that's a great diet. But I feel the need to make up for it now. Oh, do you? Yeah. Look at all I missed the last few days. You have the opportunity to. You got space there. Yeah, I was in Oklahoma City last week. One of the things, Sarah, and I talk about a lot how grateful I am we are. We are rarely sick on the road. I mean, I can count on one hand the times I have even felt discomfort with all the travel I've done, all the places in the world I've been. It's just been amazing. I'm always grateful for it. I'm always aware of it. I'm aware that, man, I'm here. Particularly if I'm around sick people or no people have been sick on the road. And boy, this last trip, I was doing great. Man, things were cooking and had dinner restaurant, talking to Sarah on the telephone late at night, getting ready to go to bed. And then all of a sudden, everything within a second, I was in excruciating pain from feeling absolutely fine. Oh my gosh. Remember that? That happened on the Shaq movie set. With me? With me. You were sick on the movie set. Yeah. When I was there. Yeah. Well, we were sitting there watching the doc scene. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just also did not feel so good. And I didn't even make it to the. Yeah, but you got, you got rid of it right away and seemed to be fine again. There you go, see? She's quick, but. No, I got rid of it. That was not, yeah. I got rid of it, but it didn't go away. And then the next day it was kind of funny just because the next day we were full on 10 o'clock meeting. So you had multi-day ordeal of food poisoning? Multi, no, overnight. No sleeping up constantly overnight. The next day, I'm not. Queasy. No, we just squirrely. Queasy, queasy, squirrely. Yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, having to rush to the, to the restroom to get crude about it, but I just. You didn't want to be far. So unsettled and painful up until this past Sunday. So it was four or five days of, I'm not sure what I could eat or drink and nothing makes me feel good. Everything kind of pushes me back to that weird space. And the one being aware of your stomach every second is not a pleasant experience. I like most of those functions to be in the background of my life. Sure, sure. I think about a couple of times a day when I'm getting ready to eat, but other than that, I just pretty much want to ignore it. I think the church has this condition very regularly. A lot of the conditions that you're describing, I'm going, yeah, I see that happening in our culture today. Seems like people are experiencing multi-day, queasy, just uncomfortableness going, what the heck is going on? Politically. Politically. Religiously. Yeah, I'm serious. We haven't done the I'm Wayne Jacobson. And I'm still Brad Cummings. And he's back again. So we're great to have him. Good to be with you. You traveled. I've traveled. We're both back for a moment. Yeah, you've been running around getting the shack thing all nailed down. Is it locked? I think so. Almost. Almost locked. There's a couple of things we're still working out. No, we're doing some voiceovers today. But you're happier with it having returned from this last trip. You feel like it's moved to better space. It is. Which still likes me because I thought was in great space to start with. So it's moving to better space. It is getting better each and every day. And it's fun to watch this thing unfold and mature. And you're just going like, Oh, yeah. Wow. This is going to be cool. And you've really enjoyed working behind the curtain of a Hollywood production, haven't you? What were you experiencing? I think I've had multi months into just it's a challenge. I've got an email from you. It's a challenge. Okay. Way back at the beginning of this process. Yeah. Back to Mordor. Little chances. It says, surety of death. Let's go for it. Five years. I've just watched you go from glory to glory as God's changing you. That would be in the mission report. Yes. We would write the mission reports with glowing glory to glory. Yeah. Is that what causes the squirreling dust in the stomach? Yeah. Are we back to that now? Wow. Well, you know, I just, I think we live in a very messy world with normal humanity. And it's amazing to watch God at work in the midst of that. And I actually have finally gone like, this is cool. I like, I like this. I'm no longer thinking it's not going to be a mess, which that's really helpful. You know, we've, we've, we've been at this UNI for about an hour before we turned on a microphone. But those things could not be said. Because we were discussing things. There was no way to put on, on, on the recording of any kind. And yet, here we are. And now it's kind of the theme of the whole thing was, look, if you're expecting it to be really good behind the scenes, you just got to know that it sucks. And when you finally get to the point that it sucks, you can accept what's good in it. It's a both and I mean, I think this applies to all of life. We, we really get shipwrecked when we find inconsistency. And I'm going to like, I don't know a single human being that doesn't display moments of inconsistency. Silence there. I'm confessing for all of us. Okay. I'm seeing three different trails to go down here. And I'm just deciding which of the three do I want to choose? Go ahead. No, but I think in the midst of that, I used to when I was younger kind of really kind of be confused, like, Oh, that means it's, it's, it can't be right. And I'm going like, no, it's, it's right and wrong. There are some things that are right. And even in lives that are kind of messy, and you could, you could look at the, well, that's wrong. And it's like, well, yeah, but not everything's wrong. And I think that's why we're told to test everything and to hold fast. That which is good. I think that means you let a whole bunch of other stuff go where I was reacting to the word inconsistency because I'm, I struggled to be honest. I think there ought to be a consistency in the way we approach, approach life and what we are in public and what we are in private. There are the consistency. Not a perfection. None of us are perfect, perfect. Everything writes better than it lives. I say that all the time as a writer, you know, you write, he loves me or you write a book like that. And you're putting your best moments, best thoughts into this thing. This is the way I, I live it, want to live it. Do I live it perfectly every day? I don't. Do I live it better today than when I wrote it? I do. I, no, I definitely do. I'm definitely learning that love thing and it's changing me. But I guess what disturbs me, and whether it's the political scene or the religious scene, when people put out something out front they pretend to be, to be passionate for and then don't live the realities of that off the stage. And I don't mean just they're inconsistent and have imperfect moments. I just mean there's a distinct cutoff between what they claim to be. That was my public presentation and who they really are. Yeah. And I mean that just in terms of is the kingdom your priority or is it getting the stage, getting money, that's, that's where I'm talking. And I see a lot of that or even in the, if we go to the political, we talk about the political climate. I was in Oklahoma sitting at someone's table and we got into a political discussion about the candidates and you can't look at the, I mean, we, this is the day we're, we're recording this even though it's not going to air for another 10 days. We're recording it the day after. Super Tuesday. Super Tuesday. And this is Wednesday, the hangover Wednesday. I mean, have you ever seen a political contest more disgusting than the one that we're in right now? I don't think I have. I don't know that I have, but I know enough history to go, it's not the first time. No, it's not the first time. But in my lifetime, there's not one of those candidates that A gets me excited and B, I'm not even sure there's one I trust most of what their public persona is trying to say they are. Okay. So I'm sitting at this table in Oklahoma city and we get talking about the political thing and I forget how I got started. And then, you know, somebody asked me, what do you think of Ted Cruz? And so I went off like a Roman candle just as stupid as I could be about, you know, I just, and I don't really know him from the public persona stuff. And I don't know that any of it's true. I don't know what he's like at home. I know what I see when a man's got a microphone and he gets to the end of whatever and to God be the glory. And I see those moments like his Iowa caucus winning speech. So anyway, I'm in the aftermath of all that. And so as I kind of waxed eloquent about my view of your disdain. Yeah, well, disdain is a strong word, but accurate. You're gonna say, I got caught off the press. It's disdain. And then they look at me and say, Oh, by the way, we're campaign workers for him in our precinct. Yeah, baby. Yeah. Here, have my well chewed shoe here. If you'd like, you know, people, I appreciate when I try and they didn't set me up because we didn't get into this discussion because of them. We got into discussion. Did they graciously go? Okay, did they give some credence to what you were saying? Some shared concern? Or did they have just a told Kool-Aid different perspective? No, we had a great conversation about it. And the believers who love Jesus can see these things differently. Because who knows the political stuff. And we can have different desires, things we're looking for in a candidate and someone else is looking for. So yeah, they were incredibly gracious. We had a great conversation about it. And in fact, they even were able to talk about their yuck moments do with that candidate, things that give them pause. So yeah, we did get into that kind of discussion. And it was good. Because I like that guy. I know you do. I actually think he's got some value. I'm glad Sarah is not in here right now. She might just get you with a shoe or something. But no, I like that guy. I spent I spent half day with his dad. Well, you spent half a day with everybody. No, I don't. No, I don't. No, I don't. No, I don't. No, I don't. No, I don't. No, I don't. No, I don't. No, I don't. That might be. But, but I was so taken by the genuineness and the passion. Oh my gosh, we're not going to campaign here, are we? No. Okay, good. But I really liked that. So that's my problem is I have that as a relational lens. I think it's really hard to assess all this stuff when you're just going like, we're getting such a spun version of everything. I end up going like, hey, how does how does someone get a clear view of reality anymore today? And no one seems to care what's true. I, yes. Have you heard that before? I would concur. I would concur that it seems as if I just need to say what's expedient in the moment and then I might nuance it differently. Are you watching the OJ Trials miniseries thing? No, I'm not. You're not. I don't have time. I guess you're trying to try with Ted Cruz's dad. No, I am aware of this. Here's me. No, I think, the reason I bring it up, I mean, Sarah and I, this is one of the better things TV does, I think, a TV series. I mean, it takes its back to something we live through. Right. And now it gives us, and then you can read the next day what in the miniseries was true, not true, because I realize it's not all true. But right, what they're doing right now, and you and I have been through this in other ways, what the lawyers in the case are trying to do now is we don't care what's true about what happened, particularly talking about the defense attorneys for OJ. Yeah. In fact, they all believe he's guilty. I think that makes it pretty clear that they don't have a doubt that he's guilty. They know the LAPD didn't plant all that blood, but they've got to create the story that it did to get their guy off. And how this whole legal, no one, no one cares what's true and the defense attorneys to save the conviction of an obviously guilty man. They're willing to destroy the reputations of all kinds of people, from the prosecutors to the policemen to the, and when you talk about inconsistencies, there's nobody's life you can delve into with a microscope that you won't find something to use to trash them. And I'm worried about a political system slash judicial system that really said, this is just a game we're playing. And if we destroy you as part of it, I just, sorry, it's not personal. It really isn't. That's just the way we do business now. I find that totally repugnant. Distain is a great word. And look, we had some guys that were trying to play it nice for a while, and they got them nowhere. No. And the only time that they get anywhere is when they pick up the spitballs, mudballs, and get into the fray. And then when they sort of descend into the pit, we go, oh, yeah. It's entertaining. I'll say that for the election. It is entertaining. It is incredibly disturbing to just go like, now, wait a minute. Some of these guys at perhaps their better moments, I've actually seen some very noble, wonderful, good things that I'm going like, I do genuinely support that. Then when you text me when that happens. Yes. Then you can, then you see in the context of where something else gets spun, or they start to devolve into, I'm going to do the expedient thing that works so I can later then do the principle thing I believe. The noble thing I want to do. And you just go like, wait a minute. Ends and means. Hello, don't be justifying. It's like, what's true? And it just seems as if our culture and the media dynamic of all that, it's as if, well, that's a sure way to lose. Just be a guy of principle. And isn't it? Well, yeah. I mean, look at Ben Carson. He'd relegated right off the back of the stage because he's kind of polite, nice and. Sleepy sometimes. I met him too. And I'm going like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But I knew from the get go, you do not have the persona that is ever going to capture the attention of this culture. A media driven culture. You don't have the it's the persona. It's like, is he a man of character? Yeah, he seems to be. Is he entirely that's so qualified? I'm not speaking for anybody that I am not me. You just don't know. The real is we've known people you think are people of character. And then you find out not that they make a mistake. Other parts to that character you didn't know. That Trump, the good Trump, that was a bad word today, that really kind of mitigate against what they say they are. I mean, it's not just like they make a mistake. We all make mistakes. We all at some moments are not our better selves or just not. Is anyone free from selfish? No. So are there moments where I'm going to wax eloquently on what I think is noble? And then am I going to do something that seems to be contrary to that? I do that. And if so, here's what I think. If you believe the principle you've been espousing and then you do the screw up thing, then there comes an apology and I'm sorry. A genuine fruit of repentance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be cool. We don't have that. That doesn't play well in the media either. No, that's roadkill. Just like I was coming about the OJ thing. The reason I brought that up in the whole political climate is for every candidate out there, you've got other campaigns whose slimy people are trying to discredit, make fun of, pigeonhole, destroy another person simply for what you said. Yeah, that's standard failure. Because they want to do it. We got to win. And that's it. That's the way it works. And just like with a defense story, nobody cares that that's the way it works. Yeah, I got to win. They justify doing that because everybody deserves a good defense. And it's kind of like, well, wasn't this ultimately about the truth and justice? No, no, no, no, no, not anymore. It hasn't been for a long time. Not anymore. I'm not sure where that departed. And I'm not sure why we can't get back there. Because that's like, part of it's like, how does a court system of men, fallen men, ever, and women, I was using the inclusive Okay, you cannot do that today. Men and women and other. And others. Yeah, I'm for others. I am not going to make it in this world. I'm not. I'm older. I'm going to get out soon. Yeah, I'm not. You've got to make it longer. So men, women, and other. I don't. I can't do that. No, don't. In all of this. And don't do it in that voice. Yeah. That gets me in trouble. Yeah. I hear you. I know. Get the emails to wadeatlifestream.org. We could be a famous podcast. Yes, I think. Keep it up. For all of us. With this, with fallen people, how do you actually get justice? Well, I wish we were trying to. I mean, I wish even in all of this, we were in the whole political sphere. I wish it wasn't political theater and a circus. I wish it was rethinking, gosh, how do we really effectively govern this nation? And who's supposed to do what? Because part of me is going like, I could do away with the federal government in a large measure. Just save the army and a few other things. Okay, now the NSA is listening in. No, but I mean, I don't own. I don't have. I forget this. No, I want to do away with the federal government. It's too big. It's wrong with it. This is a mess. And they're not supposed to do all this stuff. I agree. It is the government we have. Protect your bean patch. You love the neighbor that's in your neighborhood. And some way it's going to come down to the character of the people involved. How do you, as an attorney or a politician, knowing what you're saying isn't true? But I've got to say it, particularly when it destroys another human being and their reputation. Right. When you're doing that, calculatingly. There's a reason I'm not in that office. Yeah, me too. She's going, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know how people do that where you're just going like, yeah, you're knowingly spinning this and you're enough of a reasonable human being to know that you hate when that's done to you. But yeah, you're doing it to that guy. Yeah. And it is the whole justification of a vigorous defense or a successful campaign. These are some of the slimy underbelly of American politics. Yeah. I look at all of this. And I'm going to come save us. I don't want, unless it's Jesus, unless it's Jesus riding in on his horse. Yeah. I don't want the other dudes. I really don't. And I think it is such, we've been lulled as a larger culture into thinking that the fix is going to happen there. We want it. We, we've sort of abdicated our role, hoping that there'd be someone who really does know what they're doing, who would come and do it. And I'm going like. Do what? You think most people are hoping our political system would become more honest and gracious? No, no, no, because we talked about that before. I think if you asked the question that way, they'd go like, no, but, but, but I don't. I want a guy. Most of us are not engaged in our local communities very much. I want a guy or a woman who will take over this mess and fix it and make, no, not fix it. Make it work for me. Don't you think that's it? Really? I unfortunately do because whoever, you know, Bernie Sanders explain that one. If we stop, dude, here we have an entire generation that has been sold down the river and now they've found a guy that says, I'll give it back to you for free. And they're going, Hey, you're our guy. You're our guy. Yeah. And I go like, okay, socialism doesn't work anywhere. And it leads to something more awful. And yet we got an avowed guy that we're going to like, Hey, what's, you know, that's like him for America. But part of it isn't because we have such a politically corrupt economic system that rewards a slender slice of the pie. I mean, our laws are skewed for power brokers in Wall Street. And so that's why Bernie Sanders is getting a hearing. People are saying, look, the government is, is protecting people. The entitlement class, aren't those people getting? Yeah, he's pulling back the curtain and saying, look at those dudes. Yeah, it's the Donald Trumps of the world. And it's the power brokers of the world who played this little, oh, we're the important. It's the Clintons who have garnered so much wealth by being what? Politicians? Yeah. Isn't it bizarre that those, I mean, this is like a bad political cartoon in reality. It is. But if Clinton supports the policies I want, if Trump supports the policies I want, then I can back them and hold my nose and cheer. Jesus, come quickly. Well, I think you talk about, there's a real problem. Well, you talk about the inconsistencies and seeing the fact that there's, when you see things as they really are, and you look at the political climate as it exists in the West today as it really is, now you're ready to put your hope somewhere else, which is not a bad thing. Yeah, part of me is going like, perhaps this will ultimately work in our favor because it will lead to an implosion of what has never meant to, from the founding, ever grow that big, ever become that. I mean, it's like Little Shop of Horrors. You know, like having a little plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been doing the feed me feed me. You use that a lot on this podcast. I know, but that's what is going on. Yeah. It's, and I just go like, ooh, Seymour is taking over. He's now munching people. And you're just going like, I don't think this was ever what God intended. Yeah, now you're with less than half the people in the U.S. Because more than half the people are saying, I want more, bigger, better. I want the government to give me stuff. I want government to take stock from people who have stuff. The founder said, when we reach that moment, there's never been a democracy that hasn't committed suicide. Right. But no one's smart enough to believe history. We can. Fuel of a star. Oh yeah. Not enough to elect a candidate. Fuel of a star. Yeah, well, keep trying. Well, I just, that's where I go like, wait a minute, so many of the failed things that are being presented, if you were a student of history, you could see like, that doesn't work. And I'm going like, why are we falling for this stuff again? What's, what's going on here? And I think it is because we don't understand history. We're not really students there. And we're tired of a broke system. And we're trying to figure, well, at least how do I get my free stuff? I wish it were that. I think it just comes to root human selfishness. I want my stuff. And if you're going to move it, the needle, my direction, then I'm going to have my vote. I don't need society to be good and gracious and uncorrupted. I don't, I'm going to be corrupted as long as the corruption leans in my direction. Because we've seen it for the last. I feel a Bette Midler song like, where are all the good men? In my generation, we have all the flowers. They're together. Long time passing. But then where's our hope? Our hope isn't obviously in the system. No, that seems to be broke. Yeah. And I think as responsible citizens, you're going to have to negotiate. I do, you know, I'm going to find something to vote for, at least make my voice known so that. Yeah, just, just leaving is not the right conclusion. Yeah. Because that advocates, I think we're called to be salt and light. And salt was not that little thing in the shaker that made your steak just a little more savory. It's like, without salt, your culture went rotten. Your whole harvest and food couldn't be preserved. It would be encrusted to, so it was protected. I think when Jesus said, you're the salt of the earth, he wasn't talking about, hey, make that steak, say, savory. Spice it up. It was like, we're supposed to be meaningfully engaged. And involved so as to protect this thing from going rotten. Supposed to be or just are? I kind of do a both and there for honestly, when Jesus says, you are. I'm not saying you should be. But the context of when he said you are, it's like, hey, the light's under the bushel. And if the salt loses its flavor, it does talk about a conditional element in which that's not good and they're not doing what they're supposed to do. And so if it was just presented, it says, hey, you're blue. I'd go like, you're blue. As a you are. Oh, I thought you made blue and red state. I was really confused. It's just you are. I mean, I get what you're saying there, but I think there really is a both and. I think we have to engage because that's who we are. Yeah, I don't. Here's what I don't like they're supposed to because then people are going to try to be salt as some kind of act when they aren't in fact, salt by the way they live. Good clarification. Yeah, that's how good clarification. Because I do. I think one of the problems we have in our in our culture today is because people have probably taken the should and they sought to broker political power without being the nature of salt. Right. And so they thought, I've got to do the influence thing. And that leads to sometimes not the best results in the name of the right motivation. And it's not just political class. We've talked for an hour here about the religious thing and people who that contest between being God's person in the world who lives loved and loves freely and does it with a sense of character and that sweet smelling aroma that is what Jesus Paul said we were in the world to people who have such a lust for the stage, such a lust for notoriety, such a lust to be one of the top 10 this or one of the top five that or oh my gosh. And I I saw a list that went by the end of the day, the top 15 pastors and what they make. Oh, you can only be on that list. No, no, no, no, no. I I looked for a man of God on that list. Is there anybody here that I think has half a heartbeat for what makes God's heartbeat in the world and I didn't find anybody. And there are people there in third world countries making $50 million a year as a pastor. So this is not just the guys you think of it. A lot of guys know I don't know who they are, but you look at what they're doing and and whatever and you just go my gosh. So yeah, it seems as if we know how to warp just about anything. No, we yeah, we we man left to his own or woman. I am never going to make this. People yes know how to warp stuff if left to our own. And it just it seems to be one of the greatest things that the Holy Spirit can ever do is deliver us from our self absorbed self. And it's not even a choice. It's not like people are willing to do this. People just do this gravity the whole self focused. What do I want? What do I need to get? That just draws people into that space. It does without even thinking of it takes more thought. It's like it's like little kids. No one ever goes to school to learn how to lie. You know, we hold seminars on it on the weekend because kids don't know that some people are getting better at it. Some people get great at it, but no one goes to school. Well, they're booked. Let me let me refrain that from it. He can't say much anymore. But to be a person of character in the world, I don't mean perfect. I just mean live longer reality what your heart. What you think you are or want to be or confess and particularly if you're people of the kingdom. My gosh, man, this is a kingdom that thrives on compassion and generosity and honesty and integrity and kindness and love. It's not like those things are tough to figure out what they are. They're there. It's what we're willing to compromise because if I can just get into this position, get my brand, get my whatever. So even if I have to lie, push, cheat just a little, I'll make it worth it on the other side. I'll do good there and that's going to counteract again the ins and means. It's sad. I'm depressed. Well, we better not leave it there. Thanks for coming by. I think that's where I have found great joy in recognizing, wait a minute, Jesus steps into the mess of humanity and does some pretty extraordinary stuff. And I've been sort of as opposed to fighting that. I'm not just sort of accepting the mess. I'm just going like it is a mess. And it's I don't know when it's not going to be a mess. So the work I've got to do is just, okay, what have you called me to do? He didn't ask me to run for national office. So I'm not I'm praying every day he does. That would be fun. You're mean. I know. I look at that and I go like, what am I called to do today? Who can I love? And how can I evidence the life that I, you know, if you're not living it and enjoying it, you're not going to be able to shoot it onto yourself or somebody else. No, you're going to shoot the pretense of it on yourself. That's what seems as if enjoying it's key. I love that you said that because if this, if living with honesty and compassion integrity, if those things are like, okay, Jesus said we had to do it, you're not going to do it. You're not. If you don't enjoy even no matter what it costs you politically, notoriety, whatever. If you don't have something core in your being that says I want to be true to me and true to God's work in me, then yeah, if you don't enjoy that space, you'll resent it every day because you'll see other people not do it and succeed and it will tear your soul apart. Is weird. We're sitting in church the other day. I was actually in church. What? Yeah, I was. And I really love. What? Yes. I was sitting in church. Are you a member now? I don't know. Am I not? How could I not? You're sitting in a church. That's not, that's a different story. You're talking about sitting in a church. A local one. Yes, I was. You visited a congregation. Yeah. Are you going to say it that way? Yeah. And we've been actually doing it regularly. Oh, cool. And I really love the guy who's leading it because I'm going like, you know what? He does get it. It's like he, I really enjoy a lot of what he's saying, but I sort of recognize there is an element as, as we were, you know, leaving church and Kelly and I were having roast pastor for lunch on the way home. Yeah, that's right. National pastor. I was, I was a little bit disheartened because he really gave a strong valuable exhortation of what would be good if to the whole body of people. But I sat there going like, you know what? Nobody is going to do that. You just gave a great. So why are you roasting him? You, you just gave a great case for that, but nobody is going to do that until the switch happens on the inside and they get the want to, they get the organic side. And I was, I was talking about the dynamic of what I've been enjoying and our friendship and in kind of the pursuit of God and sort of the relational Christianity way that feels a little more organic and kind of, you know, not systematized, but, but responding to the person. And I'm going like, there's such freedom in that because when that's real, you're going to do all those same things, but it's going to come from the, I want to, I don't have to, it's going to be the natural outgrowth. And so when you said, you know, is it because you are salt? It's like, yeah, I get that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, so the difficulty is how do we, how do people come salt? It seems to me we have a religious veneer that's trying to be salt substitute. And it's always been yucky. Culture reacts to it. Yeah, it's a, it's a substitute. And yeah, I mean, mercilessly. Well, because it is abusive. Most of religious stuff is trespasses on people in an abusive and manipulative way. I've got a letter that would show just that, but that is a strong statement. He didn't just say it's unhelpful. A lot of religious talk is that's why quote unquote church, like, like the one you're attending, which I'm sure there's still people on the ground going, what, Brad, what? Brad went over the outside. You'll get letters, but it'll be great. Inside. It's the reason why religion gets an 8% approval rating and Congress gets nine. So it is, it is abuse. Jesus, here's the encouragement. Jesus gets 92. Yes, yes. People still love. I want a hero. People who love who Jesus is, his persona, as it's kind of been in the world, even though religion twists it up often with this. And I think that's what bothers me about some of the, always the candidates on the right. We, there's an arrogance and we're going to push this for God and country down your throat that people, I react to. Yes, I know you do. Yeah, because I just, I think it's not, the character of Jesus was not an imposition of what's right, but an invitation into something real. And we seem to, the whole. That's well said. The religious veneer always goes back to, we're going to impose what's in your own good for you, which becomes abusive. And harassing instead of, we're going to invite you to a way of living that's worth living just because of who he is and how he sees you and all that's engaging. And somehow, because we haven't found it engaging, we've made it an imposition. I'm going to ask a, this might be silly question, but it's like, why, when that is so true, why is there so little of that in evidence? Why, why all the religious machinery? Why is it the bulk of what people see? Is that religious substitute that's imposing? Let me refer you to a podcast about money. If you can't monetize it, you can't do it. I think that's a big piece of it. Unfortunately, I think it's a big piece of it. If people knew. That is so frustrating. Well, to me, when you've got somebody imposing, what you know about them is they don't know a God that's inviting. That's what they're living. Once you know a God who's engaging and inviting, your. Yeah, you take on that nature. You really do. Well, it seems ridiculous to try to impose that on somebody. Yeah, it just. Yeah, no, I that that math has as some somewhere in the last decade, that math has settled in to my head where you're just going like, you can't make someone do this when you was going through a bunch of files and moving stuff and clearing out. And I happened on a T-shirt. I think someone gave us where it's don't shoot on yourself. Don't shoot on others. And it was kind of like, man, if that doesn't say it. Because you can't make yourself be something that you're not. And I have, I've happily figured out the fruitlessness of trying. I've gone like, that's not going to work. You know, it's like a lot of what God's been doing in my life of recent date has been he's been asking me to be different in situations where I'm going, Lord, you know, I'm not good at that. You know, I don't even want to do that. But now that I recognize you're kind of asking me to do that. It's like, okay, but could you help? Because I can't do this. And I've been, I've been having such a blast going like, wow, God, I see you at work. Because I know I wasn't like that. And I know that's not even if I stopped to think about it. I got really negative feelings about that person. But right now you're empowering me and I'm genuinely loving them. And I'm going like, how's this working? And I'm enjoying the loving. Yes. Yeah. And that's, I never thought that was possible. Yeah, it's, it's what's not humanly speaking. It's not. But that, to me, if we don't get back to God changing the heart to make me salt. So I don't live in the world because most of the wonderful things I find myself involved in these days are the things I'm least aware that I'm doing. People tell me later, when you did that, that was amazing. And all the intentional things I'm doing to try and I don't hear the same response. Again, I think it bleeds with a certain amount of agenda. And when we live with a character, the just God's light and love and I'm in that. Free to live in love without agenda. Compassionate and kindly in the world. Then wonderful things happen and lives get touched. And that's where if there's any hope that this culture makes a change. It's millions of people doing that. Not people running for office. Why do we not trust that? Because I'm finding this in a similar conclusion. If I just let Jesus be the center and the relationship that I enjoy, good fruit comes out of that. Yeah, I live differently. And people get something that I wasn't trying to necessarily get them get. It's like the things are happening. You're just going, gosh, Lord, this is a thrill because I know you're at work. I know me enough to know I wasn't trying to do that. And I'm really jazzed that that happened. But I know it's the fact that I'm enjoying you as you're living it. It is God at work in you both to will and to do according to his good pleasure. And we're like, oh, that's awesome. That means he gives me the the want to and the ability to. And that's who that's the guy I want to ride in on a white horse. That I don't know how it works for the election because I don't see his name on the ballot. But I vote for him. Thank you for traveling with us today on The God Journey. You can join this conversation by visiting thegodjourney.com or as your voice by calling our comment line at 805-539-6980.